Notice: You have been identified as a bot, so no internal UID will be assigned to you. If you are a real person messing with your useragent, you should change it back to something normal.

Minichan

Topic: Soft Brexit.

Green !BEERiVqJJw started this discussion 2 days ago #62,468

Yes please.

Svet !jzYkdX7lIw joined in and replied with this 2 days ago, 48 minutes later[^] [v] #786,009

It's all in your head, Green. Nothing will change for you no matter what happens. Not unless you have big plans that involve giving back to society in the form of income tax and national insurance.

Killer Lettuce🌹 !!iNo3FkiZx joined in and replied with this 2 days ago, 18 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #786,012

@previous (Svet !jzYkdX7lIw)
Well, he will notice something if he likes Toblerones. And Peperami too, apparently. But I don't think even a soft Brexit could save those.

Oh, also the NHS losing even more workers could potentially be an issue for us regular chaps. I read about one A&E department that was staffed nearly entirely locums. Won't be able to get so many of those now.

Svet !jzYkdX7lIw replied with this 2 days ago, 6 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[^] [v] #786,013

@previous (Killer Lettuce🌹 !!iNo3FkiZx)
I was working on an event sometime ago and one speaker who brought up brexit made some solid arguements that many companies,govenment and private have just got lazy over the past 20 or so years and relied on easy immigration to fix skill and staff sortages rather than train from within the UK. Maybe a brexit will be a shock to the system but we've come back from worse and maybe it wil create long term opportunity for our friend Green.

Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU joined in and replied with this 2 days ago, 52 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #786,015

@previous (Svet !jzYkdX7lIw)
That's not being "lazy" that's just basic economics. If you can hire a foreign worker to perform the same quality of work at a lower cost, then it doesn't make economic sense to hire local workers. It's more economically efficient to have those native workers change industry and do something else that isn't easily replicable by cheap foreign workers. That has the benefit of lowering prices in all the industries that cheap foreign labor has flooded (because costs in the form of wages decrease) while freeing up native workers to do higher skilled, higher paid work, raising incomes for the native population. Not to mention, more immigrants means more jobs overall because now these are more people who have needs and wants that can be met by the market. There isn't a "lump of labor"; kicking out/reducing immigration results in fewer jobs for everyone. If wages rise because local work won't work at the same price point as immigrants, then the cost of products for the average consumer rises too. This is all not factoring in the intangible benefits/soft power/hard power benefits of being in the world's largest economic union. You are going to have to negotiate with individual nations like the U.S., China or Russia who can afford to twist your arm because your economic power is piddling compared to what it was when it was joined with the rest of Europe. You also have a fair bit of ill will with other members of the EU who think your leaving is a threat to the union and are therefore disinclined to offer you good trade deals as well.

I genuinely cannot see any way in which leaving the EU makes any economic sense, especially since Scotland and N. Ireland want to be in the EU as well and may leave the UK. You basically chopped your country in half for...I have no idea what. We also fucked up electing Trump but at least that has a shelf life of 8 years maximum, potentially a lot less. You guys...man I wish you well, but I have no idea what you can realistically achieve besides a potentially abrupt slide towards economic and geopolitical irrelevancy. Good luck! You're gonna need it.

Svet !jzYkdX7lIw replied with this 2 days ago, 9 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #786,016

@previous (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
I didn't say lower cost workers but that too can be a problem for wage compression, I talked about the ease in finding a worker for a postion such as nursing or construction, it's easer to bring in someone overseas who's trained than invest in apprenticeship or training programs and white that to can make econimical sense it does very little for native people with few opportunities. So great, we have 3 million new migrents which mean we saw our economy grow an extra 0.2% this quater but the working class haven't seen their pay increse in 5 years and everyone else can't afford to purchase a house and public transport is 10 times that than in mainland Europe.

Not everything needs to be about muh economy

(Edited 48 seconds later.)

Anonymous E joined in and replied with this 2 days ago, 6 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #786,017

@previous (Svet !jzYkdX7lIw)
what does whiteness have to do with this svet

Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU replied with this 2 days ago, 5 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #786,018

@786,016 (Svet !jzYkdX7lIw)
Yeah I'm definitely sympathetic to the fact that by bringing in foreign workers, the native working class got replaced/made obsolete, and the government failed to take the precautionary measures necessary to ensure that there was still a role for them in the new economy. Something similar happened over here with NAFTA. There's definitely a fair bit of blame to be laid at the feet of the architects of this free trade/movement policy, but there is not really any plausible way to make things like they used to be. The government should be looking forward towards retraining workers to focus on the areas of the global economy that are poised to be the most relevant, or maybe investigate something like UBI/large scale wage insurance for people who cannot feasibly learn a new trade. There are some new ideas that are worth trying out but you cannot shrink from the world and expect that somehow you will be able to turn the hands of the clock backwards by reconstructing an economic order that made sense thirty years ago and be a successful nation. If there's some not crazy economic rationale explaining how in the long term Brexit increases the economic competitiveness of the UK and improves the lives of its citizens, I'd like to hear it.

Svet !jzYkdX7lIw replied with this 2 days ago, 10 seconds later, 2 hours after the original post[^] [v] #786,019

@786,017 (E)
Nothing.

Killer Lettuce🌹 !!iNo3FkiZx replied with this 2 days ago, 4 hours later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #786,035

@786,013 (Svet !jzYkdX7lIw)
I would be less wary of this if the NHS wasn't already in quite a bad way. Like, even if you're right and we do eventually get loads of Brits back into work to replace the lost immigrants, by then it might be too late for the NHS. And with our ageing population, people especially need it right now.

Maybe what you're saying could happen to some extent, and that might be a good thing, but I just don't see it helping our NHS.

@786,015 (Fake anon !ZkUt8arUCU)
I think that some Tory MPs have realised this stuff too. There have been a few instances of them trying to downplay how much immigration will be cut, and promising that there'll still be foreign workers coming in. IIRC even the Brexit Minister said something along those lines.

> We also fucked up electing Trump but at least that has a shelf life of 8 years maximum, potentially a lot less.
On the other hand, I am very grateful that the UK still has a moderate and respectable leader. Say what you will about Theresa May, but she's nowhere near as bad as Trump. Also, Brexit actually happening has caused UKIP (which can be said to be the UK equivalent to Trump) to utterly plummet in the polls.

But yeah, you're right. As painful as Trump is, he's temporary. Brexit is gonna have some very long-term and still very painful effects.

(Edited 1 minute later.)

Anonymous F joined in and replied with this 2 days ago, 8 hours later, 15 hours after the original post[^] [v] #786,052

Kl...why don't you move to china...goddamn commie..

Anonymous G joined in and replied with this 2 days ago, 4 minutes later, 15 hours after the original post[^] [v] #786,053

@previous (F)

Why don't you move into a house, hobo.
:
[upload]

Please familiarise yourself with the rules and markup syntax before posting, also keep in mind you can minify URLs using MiniURL and generate image macros using MiniMacro.